XML FeedsThe old shill game or a really good deal? Yeah this is going to make me "popular".
By TB on Jan 13, 2011 | In Paintball Craziness
You know, nothing is ever easy when you stand up and look at things. Even more so when you speak out about them. And in the end this is probably going to cause me some grief, but hey, I have never been one to shirk back from saying my piece and sticking to my guns. This will be no different, but I do want to say that I am not calling the man who owns this a con or a crook. In fact, he may not even realize what the pay-per-bid scheme is or can be construed as. However I am sure that his followers will be taken anything and everything I say to task about it. What is it? Markerbids.com or what some could call the paintball pay-per-bid site. Now a quick disclaimer, of course everyone knows I write for Shooting Hot, so before you email Dale, Billy or Sideshow or anyone else there, realize I don't get paid for submissions to them I submit for free, I have been published in every magazine out there one time or the other. I am not looking to make my name, in scenario paintball, my name is known. If you don't know who I am then you haven't been playing scenario paintball as I have been in the game for 10+ years all over the country and have more awards then most people have games. Other than that, feel free to send them the hate or my team or hell even me, it's kinda chilly here in Texas and the hate keeps me warm.
Now I am sure some of you wonder what it is or better yet you think you know. But do you really? Have you really thought about it from a mathematical sense of things? Here for you smart types that can figure out where I am going with this:
If (((Internal price of item) + (desired minimum profit margin)) <( (Number of bids) (price per bid) + Current High bid)) {Make Bid >= (Number of bids) (price per bid -1) + (Internal price of item) + (desired minimum profit margin)}
* assuming you include your own bid price is not included.
Now if you don't know the math let me explain it all to you. Try to keep up, not that I think you might be stupid but it can get confusing. What this is and it even goes into some explanation here is a pay-per-bid site. What does that mean? Well it isn't anything like Ebay because in Ebay if you lose then you don't pay anything, in a nutshell, to bid on the site means you pay and if you are lucky enough to win then you get what you bid on. The people who don't win, well they are out of money that they paid to bid. Now I am sure you are wondering why in the world would someone do this, right? Well easy, because in the end you might get something for close to nothing. But the site makes a killing either way, I mean you've gotten those emails about being able to get an Ipad for $60 bucks right? Don't you wonder how people do it? How do websites sell Ipads and other expensive electronics for fractions of the cost, right?
Well the site was in beta and I have been watching it for while. More so to see the word of mouth that came out about and once he started putting up the more 'popular' items to be able to show you the amount of money that this can make. Now I am sure some of you are saying let the man make some money TB, and I am all for that. But don't go around talking about how you are giving back to paintball, because you aren't in this aspect, you are playing a shell game and most people are too dumb to see it. But more on that as I work through the math for you. Let's start with a current auction, one that caught me by surprise. It is a for a Valken 2011 Redemption Pack, I know he puts the retail at $69.95, but compulsive paintball, ANS Gear and Direct Paintball all put it at $54.95. Maybe that is manufacturer suggested price but that isn't really retail. $10 bucks to ship ground or 3 day USPS, so $64.95. Let's round it to $65.00 shall we? However, this auction went for the super low price of $3.31 and I am sure people are like WOW, TB you must have the decimal in the wrong spot, this wasn't even new, this was barely new and they got it for a 95% savings? Where do I sign up, right? Well lets take a look at what the site made, shall we?
There were 331 bids and the website got a total payment of $3.31, sounds all fair right? I mean with free shipping they probably lost money right? And this one was a small one in comparison to some of the others on there. But here is something to think about, 57 people bid and they had to pay at least a $1.00 for the right to bid and got NOTHING! Let me repeat that, they got nothing. In fact 11 people spent the most averaging about $17.00 for nothing, more so several people spent over $20 and the winner didn't even spend that much. And that is the thing you don't see, that is the shill, you pay for the right to bid and then you pay the winning bid. So to the average person, the guy who won this only paid $3.31 for this "super" pack. But what you don't see, is that the people each had to pay a dollar to bid. So the site, made $334.31 off of this pack, and while it was a great deal for one person, the other people walked away with nothing. And that is part of what this site is meant to do, and that is play upon people willing to pay $10 to get a $55 pack. And if 30 people are willing to pay $10 to try and get it, then someone, somewhere is making some serious money. And that is just for a pack, what happens when you put something out there that people can really get behind? Let's take a look, shall we?
So do you understand it? Still think it is an awesome deal? Since 57 people got 100% of nothing and 1/5 of them gave over 12 bucks each to get it. LOL! Now let's look at the biggest item he has sold so far and this isn't even anything super special, I mean a Dye Proto Rail? Now remember, these are all dollar bids and this is a mid range marker. And I am going to give you what the winner paid and then what the website made from the sale of the marker. The retail value of the marker according to the site is $319.00 (again I see it for about $25 less at most sites) - Winning bid was: $17.25. So according to the website a Savings Total of: 95% or $302.74 right? Well let's break this auction down, ok? So total number of bids was 1,725 at a dollar per bid. However that boils down to 141 people who actually bid on this, in fact about 12 were in it from the beginning and were in it up until the end. And in this instance the guy who won, paid $363.00 in bids and then $17.25 in the auction costs. And all he got with that, was some free shipping. I could give you the pricing elsewhere with Free shipping but let's just say that Markerbids broke more than even with just his bid, not to the the other 141 people who bid. In fact there was one who bid $160 and got NOTHING. And another 4 who bid between 50 and 85 and got NOTHING! What a deal right? Have you figured out what the site made yet on this $300 marker? Yep, $1725.00 and you wonder how they can afford to ship anywhere in the world. And what happens when something like a LUXE goes up or another hot marker. Let me do some quick math for you, if you see a bid hit $20.00, thats $2,000 for the site, and if it sells for $100 then that is $10,000 for the site. And who wouldn't pay $100 for a $1100 marker right? And that is if there isn't any funny business as my equation above showed could be done very easily.
I'm going to let that one stew a bit, I am going to see what happens when this hits the net. I think that I will be banned from TechPB, the haters will be all up in arms and well Mike will probably come after me personally in a big way. See, there is big money to be made, and I just outed it. Oh I am sure that someone would have eventually done it, but well I got it out there first. First in and Last out is how I like to roll. So next time we will talk as to why anyone would ever pay for this, I'll give you hint. Read up on Game Theory and well you will have a "beautiful mind". And there will be a part 2, but realize that will be more about the psychology, morality and sociology of the site and the people in charge of it. I have shown you the math, and that is the only math lesson I plan on giving.
Fair warning any of the TechPB faithful or Markerbids faithful, feel free to post about how I am wrong. Use a real email address and name and anything you want to say will be posted. Use some fake shit and well your post will never see the light of day, it isn't censorship, it's accountability. Since well you all know who I am or you can find out who I am. As Mike said in his forum post, I am not hiding under some online pseudonym and I am out there playing the games as well. You have been warned.
59 comments
I find this kind of unbelievable.You have you pay what you bid, no matter what, even if you lose the item?
You also have to pay each bid you made all rolled together if you did win?
No fucking way. That can't possibly be real. Nobody is that stupid.
Well it is similar to the line I was going down when I started this article, but learning how 'penny' bid process worked made for changes. You pay per bid (1$) And then you pay whatever the winning price was. And the price increments in (.01$) at a time. But yeah, the individual people aren't that stupid, ok the guy who paid 380 bucks for a 300 marker was pretty stupid, but collectively people give lots of money, for nothing.
I think people should send me money for nothing. But that is the subject of another blog!
And to think I'm having to hire a consultant and lawyer to file patents, lock up investors, establish a production run, market the product, and get it sold for just 1 of the projects I'm working on....
I'm in the wrong line of business.
My wife and I saw an ad for one of these sites and were wondering how they could make money selling a Dodge Charger for $600. Of course I now see that they raked in $60,000 on the auction so they’re really making money hand over fist. I’ve always figured sites like this were a scam, but I never understood how. Now I do. Thanks for this post TB.
Well see that's the thing, it isn't really a scam. Since the guy who paid $600 got a Dodge Charger for that amount plus his cost per bid. Now he may have spend 16k to get it since that would be 60,000 bids if a dollar a bid or 6,000,000 bids if at a penny per bid. But you are right in something doesn't feel right, someone else making two to three times what something is worth right? Or that people are putting money down and getting nothing in return?
I have read a few websites comparing it to gambling, and believe it or not it isn't random, there is a strategy to it. Hence my hint about Game Theory, I have actually just finished 23 hours of lecture on economics and social game theory and it is pretty interesting stuff, if you can get past the math. But Gambling, while there is some skill, you do have more chances of coming out on top or at least breaking even. Here you have none of that, there can be only one and everyone else is shit out of luck.
So an outright scam, not so much. Morally bankrupt? Maybe so!
Here's another link to a blog describing another Penny Auction site.http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/12/profitable-until-deemed-illegal.html
Here's some definitions of gambling pulled from various sources:
- the act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize)
- An activity characterised by a balance between winning and losing that is governed by a mixture of skill and chance
- take a risk in the hope of a favorable outcome
Call it an auction, call it a game, but the bottom line is that it's gambling.
It's very easy to start down the path to a gambling addiction. I can only imagine the adrenaline rush that some of those last few bidders had right up until they lost.
Not sure how something like this is supposed to help paintball. Taking a little bit of money from dozens of people who now may not have the money to go to their local field or store. This doesn't seem to support the people who are trying to give them true value for their hard earned money.
If you look at money spent on paintball gear and activities as a whole, less equipment will be sold in the long run. Think of a company like Valken selling items to a store who them sells them to Markerbids. If the item sold for 500% of retail that means that the money to buy 4 more of that same item just vanished off the table and went into Markerbids pocket.
If you have $10, $25 or $100 that is just burning a hole in your pocket...here's an idea. Give it to the Wounded Warrior Fund. Sure, if you go to markerbids.com you might win an auction and save some money. The odds are against you and you'll most likely lose though. I can promise you that donating that money will be a guaranteed win with the good feeling you'll have that you just helped someone who was injured in a battle for your right to read this silly blog.
I sat and watched one of those penny auction sites make almost $9,000 on a $600 ipad. That particular site is one of the better ones because they allow you to buy an identical item for "retail" minus how much you spent bidding. Plus they give you a warning when your bidding is getting close to retail so you can stop and just buy it. Basically if you get up to $600 in bids you can stop and apply that to the ipad and buy one. Then others will continue to bid on the original one. Greatly reduces your risk.Personally I don't think they are a scam unless the host is using bots to keep the bidding going up. Greedy? Maybe. Scam? Possibly but not likely.
How to make a lot of moneyStep 1) Gain a cult-following by creating hundreds of youtube videos and calling everyone in the industry out.
Step 2) create a forum for cult followers to follow.
Step 3) realize selling your items on ebay isnt going to pay the bills.
Step 4) Create an internet begging campaign about you being a 33 year old poor college student with a family and you really need more money.
Step 5)Utilize cult following in pay per bid auction scheme
Step 6) profit?
LMAO! And you just hit what part 2 is going to be about, well that and a few other things. 
I see no real issue if people that win get their items. If people are dumb enough to wantonly throw money away on losing bids, they're just your average dumbass paintball kids. Here is the issue, gambling is regulated. And this is gambling, you pay your money and you are attempting to get something for nothing. Most Bible-belt states are already up in arms, because people get addicted to this things and spend money that they don't have in the hopes of getting things that they cannot afford.Now normally, I am Libertarian enough to say fuck them people, they made their beds, they can lay in them. But there is a reason that kids aren't let into casinos, and for that matter even adults under the age of 21 cannot go into a casino and gamble. But kids are the main demographic, we've always touted that, latch-key kids with daddies charge card is where the money is.
And considering the screen names of some of these 'people', kids run rampant on that board. Now more about this in part 2, but realize that if this was a 21 year old and up only show, the basis of my article would be, you are some stupid people.
In this instance, it is more along the lines of do you want you kid addicted to gambling in a world gone wild (TechPB)?
I just wanted to comment that Kyles post was HILARIOUS!I can't wait to see what you have to say about that in part 2 TB.
Check out the thread on TechPB.The combination of the kool-aid drinkers and the whiners is hilarious.
As tight as the Tech PB community seems to be, how long will the cult last as Mike continuously screws over his "friends"?
I love how all these sheeple are saying things like, "no big deal that I lost, I can't wait to see what Mike is going to do with all the money he makes for TechPB!"
Newsflash...There is a VERY distinct reason why Markerbids and TechPB are 2 different companies. You chumps just paid Mike's mortgage payment with the insanity that surrounded the G4 auction. I'm 100% positive that there will be improvements made at TechPB, and Mike's house and his car, etc, etc
ROFLMAO!
Markerbids pays for mikes school allows him to be a stay at home dad prevents him from foreclosing on his home...ect.Only an idiot would actually believe he's using the money for techpb.
Here's a funny quote from Mike..."You don't understand, when auctions go like this, it's the most stressful thing you can imagine. One hiccup and I've got to refund 2,000+ bids? ugh I don't want to even think about it "
LOL. Mike already has the $2000 in bids in his pocket. It doesn't matter if you bid or not. Now in the long run, yes he cares that the auctions run smoothly so he can keep raking in the money. But he is not refunding anything, he simply says, "oops, our bad, it's a new site" and re-lists the item and every gets their bids back to waste another 20+ hours of their lives as one extremely disgruntled customer claims.
Here is my issue with techpb.When I joined a year ago, there was live chat, radio shows, consistent videos and great activity on the forums.
1 year later, the chat is gone, radio shows are gone, videos are garbage and the forum is littered with little kids saying "lol".
Complaint from user"DAMMIT. I spent literally the last 20 hours bidding, no food, no sleep, and then at the very end the effing website lags and I lose. I am out $60 in bids and an entire day of my life because the site lags out."
Response from Mike
"BMB you gotta understand that there is no guarantee, that even if your bid got to the server in time, that it would have been the "final and winning bid". A bid only adds 20 seconds to the clock, it's not that you would have "slipped it in" Ebay style before the auction closed.
We're monitoring the server and it's BARELY at 15% of capacity. Pretty much about the same amount of power draw that your computer has, when it's running a screen saver.
I'll have Dragan pull the detailed logs to see if there is any hiccups, or anything of suspect. But right now, that auction had almost 7,000 page hits, hundreds of bidders all over the world, and you're the only one complaining. Usually when we crash out, EVERYONE sees the crash out and we start getting emails from the server management company that there is a problem.
As of right now, everything looks like it performed as it should from our monitors "
All i can say is wow!
Now that's some customer service I can get behind."The server works, thanks for your $60, and go fuck yourself."
You'd think it was me running the place.
Who ever said this is a gambling site wa crazy!....Request from User
"Need warning
I strongly feel that you need a warning label before you get in the site, may cause paranoia panic heart aches and may cause empty bank accounts. Site is addictive but dont be afraid we have an clinic for it "
Response from Mike
"You mean like the one that's clearly stated at the bottom of the Terms and Conditions, that every person must agree to have read before creating an account?
Warning:
Placing frequent, repeated and/or unmonitored bids online at www.Markerbids.com.com can incur high costs. We advise all users to carefully monitor their bidding practices. Each bidder is responsible for monitoring their own bidding practices and determining their own monetary risks.
"The least we can do is to be completely upfront and honest with our business model, how we make money, and the financial risks you take by using Markerbids.com. There is a chance that you may win a $2,000 paintball marker for $80, using the bids you got for free when you signed up. There is a chance that you may spend $5,000 on this site and not win a single item."
Not sure what else you want, but my based are covered "
Hey, if you read the warning label on cigerettes and you still smoke and die, its not my problem!!! :-)
The quotes on the markerbids.com forums just keep getting better."That actually a good idea,
For people who spend let's say 40+ bids on the item and DIDN'T win, can they at least get a TechPB sticker?
It would feel as a complete loss then.... "
Soooooooo paying $40 for a fuckin' sticker would make the simpletons happy over there? Really?
Maybe it should read: I got fucked over by lag at markerbids.com, but I won this awesome TechPB sticker!
ROFLMAO!
OMGZ! This just made the whole rainy weekend better..... Best dumb dumb post EVA! LOL......The quotes on the markerbids.com forums just keep getting better.
"That actually a good idea,
For people who spend let's say 40+ bids on the item and DIDN'T win, can they at least get a TechPB sticker?
It would feel as a complete loss then.... "
I'm almost positive that penny bid sites aren't considered gambling by current law. Maybe they should be? maybe not? Thats what voters are for. Write in if you want the law changed.That being said, the site *does* have the disclaimers up front. says you might lose your ass. I'm probably never ever ever going to buy a bid to use on markerbids.com... i also probably wont be going to vegas any time soon. Why? i don't really have the cash to risk.
Now if i was in the market to purchase a marker at full retail price anyway, and markerbids offered the retail purchase option if you didn't win, I'd probably throw bids, no problem.
However, doing this would take away most of the site's profits.
I get the business model, and until they make it "gambling", its legit. In fact, i think its genius...
Wont catch me competing for a deal though, not in this economy.
Ive used the site a few times and the auctions take way too long, go on into the middle of the night and some guy with a bidbot wins everytime. Complete waste of money. Will never use this site again. 
Yea TB like ya need to be more "popular" than you already are.......heheheBut ya got the minions thinking on this one............
Epic lolIn deffence of Mike I don't think its fair to say he's hurting paintball. No one would really spend 370 as it where for a paintball gun worth 300 at a store. Mike figured out how to get people to do it via a game.
I don't need to defer, a shill game is a shill game. And if you think that this is just good business, well then I guess you really don't care about the game, the "sport" or the people in it.
Or is it ok to make $2700 on a $400 gun?
Im ok with techpb kiddies that have done nothing but act like total asshats when they've shown up in force paying 2700. This is absolutly the most epic thing Mike has done. He's gotten his minions to the point that they will defend him tooth and nail as he fucks them. You follow the pied piper you go in the drink. With any luck maybe people will get it this time, but proberly not.
This whole scheme reminds me of Jim Jones.Find cause against a common enemy (pbnation)
Build army
use army for personally gain while leading them into the abyss (markerbids)
"Enemies". so funny.If every major paintball forum dropped dead right this moment... more would pop up to replace it, and nobody would even notice, nor particularly care.
Hahahaha, this is some crazy Bernie Madoff sh*t! I wish I'd thought of it!Is it right? Probably not.
Is it illegal? Nope.
Remember, fools are always easily parted from their money.
Please excuse me while I set up a pennybids site for some other hobby...
http://markerbidsforum.com/showthread.php?51-so-jay33-you-want-to-let-someone-els-win&p=224#post224lol the forums are hilarious,
If you dont win then you need to use a "better strategy".
hmmm
That's what I've been saying Ned. I've really enjoyed the posts over there. However, it does scare me that some of the people bidding will be operating a paintball marker. Talk about some LCDs. 
Yea, nothing is quite as eye opening as remembering that 10 year old kid your standing behind has a 68/4500 psi rocket attached to the back of his marker. Who is saying something about installing an anti syphon tube at home Wow,Angel A1 Fly is currently at $22.95
Lets see, assuming every cent = $1
thats $2295.00!!!
Lets say he got the Angel A1 for $500
thats a $1795 profit!!!
WHY ARE PEOPLE BLOWING THEIR MONEY OVER
THERE????
I DONT UNDERSTAND THIS!
Hahahahahahaa for a shitty A1...Angel A1 Fly (barf)
Retail Value: $999.99
- Current Bid: $34.46
- Bid Credits Used x $1.00$0.00
- Taxes & Shipping Fees: $0.00
Savings Total: 97% or $965.53
Winner: Nicklaus
Today 06:43 PM
No kidding. Kind of regret I used so many bids, would stop now if I didn't. More or less stopped watching it, since you can't believe what you see anyway. A win isn't a win until the mailbox hits you in the head I guess.
I'm just letting it autobid for now. Sure is frustrating though.
Today 09:55 PM
Hey, didnt mean for it to end like that. Makes me look like I pushed people out. And thats not it.
I was just frustrated about the "sold" I did get and didn't get approved.
I used almost 500 bucks for this, and I have noone else them myself to "blame" for it.
Today 10:14 PM
I hope thats right. Anyhow, I'm sorry. And as I write here, http://markerbidsforum.com/showthrea...4-Angel-A1-Fly , has to be the worst felt win in anything I have been in until now.
Then again, half of it might be from the suspense from the auction and the lack of sleep.
But hey, we all "hate" the emo kids that are Mike's bread and butter right?They deserve what they get right 10-Shot?
I'm stuck on one thing...Why should anybody care? Is it the whole "helping paintball" bit? Anybody with half a brain can see that's bullshit, because all it does is change who people give their disposable income to. Quite easy to see it could very well take money out of the pockets of companies, and more specifically, event promoters...
but...
Beyond that, if somebody wants to gamble away their money... so what?
Sad, very very sad.Funny, the 'mean ole' TB doesn't seem to be that mean in this instance.
oh well. No need for Part 2, since the outpuring from people here and via private emails have all been a big so what, screw those guys, they aren't my problem and they aren't my friends.
And people wonder what is wrong with paintball these days?
Well, it's not really about paintball. This is a compulsive gambling addiction that just happens to use paintball gear as the carrot.Trying to warn people off won't work. All that will do is deflate the number of bids somewhat, making it even more appealing to the remainder.
In fact... a personal-issue intervention by strangers is never going work. Wouldn't work even if you brought along Dr. Phil.
The only legit option is to lobby for legislation regulating penny-bids as gambling sites... which the government still can't stop, let alone regulate in any meaningful fashion.
Nobody is going to bother with any of that. That's just how it is.
Only a desperate man would ever actually follow through with this website. Honestly to built the trust of so many followers and lead them off a cliff is pretty disturbing. yeah one guy may get a deal, but 10 other lost their asses. The most surprising things is all the carebears that whined about me and my style of play (which didn't cheat anyone) are now the ones saying people get what they get. And that they are ok screwing the kids who follow Mike.Gambling is an addiction, and kids under 18 shouldn't be exposed to that by anyone. You can explain everything else away, but the shill game is the shill game.
I'll keep watching, but since the 'good guys and gals' don't seem to care, it is time for me to move on as well.
If kids under 18 are doing it... that sounds like a parenting issue to me.Those things have a tendency to work themselves out.. like when a kid causes a cell phone bill explosion.
Getting kids to gamble in some way or another is certainly dicked up TB. I just find it fitting/hilarious/epic. Being in sales has jaded me somewhat. 
cap·i·tal·ism :an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
Last time I checked Mike lives in America. I know I do. If he wants to bank on all of the hard work he did on videos that help people learn how to play that cost him thousands of hours of his time an resources... and remain a free service to the paintball community... then I don't mind sending a few bids his way.
If you have ever watched a single one of his videos to learn something about paintball, then you probably should just abstain from the criticism. Also, after you watch the video and then fixed your problem would you pay $1 to watch such a video in the future? I would. But of course I also buy my DVD's and blu-ray movies at the store and don't download them for free off the internet.
If you answered yes, then just know that Mike has over 25 MILLION upload views and 56,671 subscribers. Take any model of existing entertainment business and Mike should already be making tons of money. Difference is he had to go get it himself..which is really the American way my friends. You want better target(s) for your angst.. go check out the Forbes list. Pick just about any CEO at the top of any American corporation. I think Mike atleast deserves a nod for working his way up.
I am new to paintball, but it seems there is a culture within the sport that wants and expects everything for free. Probably the same kids that steal movies and games online and pirate everything under the sun. You want to talk morals.. everyone who comments needs to check their own before poking at TechPB/Mike.
Now, don't give me a crock of "he drank the cool-aid" shit. I am not a kid and know full well the amount of time video production even at a limited quality can take. I have also "won" contests from techPB and received prizes that were not what was initially the described value promised, if anyone wanted to be a whiner I would have more cause than most of you to go at Mike. But I never would, and not because I am worried about getting banned or what mike thinks or any bullshit like that… but because, I know TechPB doesn't have to do fun contests that are more of a time sync for them, and I can be happy with what I am given. I am not some brat who hasn't learned to appreciate what he is given and doesn't appreciate the hard work of others that I have benefited from.
So, I have some math for you TB. 705 videos (posted by TechPB) * 3hrs (for very rough total production time estimate) = 2115 hrs.
2115hrs/8hrs (average work day) = ~264 workdays
264 work days/ 5 = ~53 work weeks
So, if someone gives a year of his life to even indirectly help anyone for free with free content that may save them money… is that worth something?
My answer is yes and he deserves to make just as much as any other leader in the pball industry should, and they should all be thanking him for the year of his life (although it is probably way more.)
Paintball is fun, TechPB helped me learn about PB to the point where I can help others have more fun and help them to keep costs down in many ways, so we can all play more. Its about comradrie. If Mike wants to make a business out of something he loves then awesome! I am pretty sure most all other big pballers have already done so being much less helpful in the process to the general public/player…
But please… do not question his morality. I follow TechPB closely, and I have never seen any clues that Mike & Willie are anything but open and honest in all of their actions. Mike has been point blank direct about markerbids. Its not his fault that literacy and ADHD is a problem in America.
If people read what the Markerbids site says, there really is no issue and he has already stated he will adhere to any current and future laws regarding the business.
Theres my two cents. Thanks for the article and your time provoking thought amongst the community.
LOL. "It's okay to run a shill game. He posted videos!".That's the weakest argument you could possibly bring to the table.
This could be really easy to clear up. I looked, but have not seen anything about what software his penny auction site is running.
In fact, his site, afaik, has been totally stripped of branding. That's an extra fee. You pay that fee so people don't know what you are running.
Why would I, if I were running a penny bit site, not want people to know what software I'm running? Well, it's simple. Most of them come with "Administrative Auto Bid". That function is what creates the shill bids, which are in fact illegal as it constitutes fraud.
If Mike wrote this software himself, then it would be no problem to make it open source, or apply any type of independent oversight to ensure users they are not being taken advantage of. If he did not, he can say what he's running and give people a method to verify it.
That's the problem.
Most people do not give a shit if he's making money off of gambling or not. I certainly don't.
Take a read in the newest Shooting Hot, and you will see what I think about the community. LOL LOL. Another strange thing about living in America. We are innocent until proven guilty. There are also such things as "slander" and "libel." My point was America is a capitalist country. As you say and I agree, I don't give a shit if he's making money off of gambling. So we agree.
So, not sure what you mean by all the other stuff Indy? Sounds like a half accusation or something.
Like TBs article says. "If you are going to talk the talk... you need to walk the walk.."
If you know so much. Do something about it or quit running your mouth. Simple as that.
You realize Justin that you have come here and uttered the same defense that PB Nation did when I took them on, that MXS did, that Viper did and everyone else has. I am very aware of slander and libel and none of that is here. If you think that there is, then I am certainly glad that you are neither an attorney nor a judge.I am not trying to be a dick and I gave you a place to have your say.
But your 'debate' techniques are flawed and most of the people who posted in this thread, are very well aware of the history of me and this site.
But feel free to make your demands due to living in America.
TB, honestly, no I don't know the history at all. Like I said I am new to paintball. I ended up here after reading your article on "Shooting Hot" that provided a link. You invited responses and I did. My latest one was directed at "Indy" who seemed to allude to fraud, but maybe I misread it. If so, all apologies to Indy. I just posted what I thought. You obviously stood behind what you said you would do and posted it. nuff' said i think.
Now that I understand the spirit/point of your blog I am out.
Peace man. Later..
Justin... I hope you don't drop out of school, you need it."LOL. Another strange thing about living in America. We are innocent until proven guilty. There are also such things as "slander" and "libel." My point was America is a capitalist country. As you say and I agree, I don't give a shit if he's making money off of gambling. So we agree.""
So... you admit that it's gambling. Hate to break it to you, but online gambling is illegal.. so you yourself have just accused him of a crime.
but lets get past that for a second, because I honestly don't care if people gamble or not...
Lets look at it abstractly. I don't know Mike. I don't watch his videos. I don't care what he has or hasn't done for paintball...
There's a guy running a type of website that is a known source of scams. The scam is literally built directly into the software. You have to pay extra to remove the scam, and even more to remove the branding so people can't easily track what you're using.
A shill game is certainly NOT capitalism. It is fraud and theft. In fact several sites have already lost tens of thousands of dollars in civil court over it to users that were scammed.
The owner could very well clear all of it up by allowing independent oversight, no different than opening up the scoreboard after a game and seeing what's what.
Alright Indy. Just for you, I will do my best to "stay in school" as not doing so would mean unemployment. My name is on this post. Google it up. I am hoping you already did and that is just a great joke. If so I am lol, good one! If not, the irony is still damn funny, and hope you get a laugh once you do. Time will tell how this plays out. Take care,
--justin
I just read an article about how thesetypes of websites are going to be banned
soon. Sucks for markerbids...lol.
Justin, you're brain washed.
My thing is why should you care? You can write about it all you want but people who like gambling or win all the time and have lots of money will do it. You report on it and don't have great information. You actually don't have a spot to say anything. Go ahead read this and delete it. Im not on markerbids/techpb and could give a flying fuck about mike. Ive seen how markerbids is being used. But you should really think about what you're doing for the sport........oh wait nothing. You're right I am such a nobody, you came all the way over here to tell me how much of a no one I am. You set me straight, I think I will go slit my wrists now, you don't like me.How about this Joe, why don't you play hide and go fuck yourself?
:)
The funny thing is I've read some of your articles, Ill give you some nice criticism this time around and thats to brighten up on your writing. Its kind of high schoolish. Also I never said to go kill yourself or slit your wrists. Plus I don't go hide and "fuck" my self. Kind of immature if you ask me to both of those and very unneeded attacks. I did attack you because I would like for you to actually wake up and face reality. The sport is dieing. If you want to help and it seems you somewhat do, you really should start thinking about the future. You attack a site, yes you get the visitors from Techpb to comment and say shit to you behind their computers but your not doing any good. Everyone like me in my local area is trying our hardest to keep it alive before more costs go up and bankrupt the players and field owners. So in the end my point is you bash another forum, site; It won't help you get more viewers, readers or anything like that. On an average you get 32 hits a day to this blog. Honestly if your striving for some more people to read, do something useful for the future. | « February Issue of Shooting Hot! | Spiro, Update! » |
